- 29 May 2010
Name: Dominic Schaub
Country: Switzerland
Occupation: Student
Training for: Swiss Alpine Marathon <http://www.swissalpine.ch/cms/trailer-4.phtml>
First of all I’d like to thank you for the outstanding book you’ve written! It is by far the greatest book on running that I’ve read. It covers almost everything a runner needs to know and explains it in an easy to understand, yet scientific manner.
After having read the book, almost all the questions I had regarding running training are answered. Yet a few remain and that’s why I’m writing. I’ll just list the questions:
Q1 (Base Training): In your book you describe a sample week for an elite athlete (page 87). Earlier (page 82) it says, that Lydiard changed from mile- to time-based recommendations. However, I can’t find a time-based weekly base schedule. Am I right assuming that it would be (in minutes) something like Mon 60, Tue 90, Wed 60, Thu 90, Fri 60, Sat 90, Sun 120?
Yes, this is about right. I’d try to get the Sunday “long run” over 150 mins, though, and to mix things up a little, have a Tuesday: “shorter medium-long run “ (80 minutes) and Thursday: “longer medium-long run” (100 minutes). Mixing the distances and effort levels up seems to be more enjoyable and productive than just going out and doing 90 minutes a day.
Q2 (Base Training): On Page 93 you write, that “once conditioned well, the athlete often needs just a light Monday’s running to bounce back ready for more work on Tuesday.” On Page 87 however, Monday’s workout is a 1 hour 3/4 effort run (following the long Sunday run). Is this a mistake?
No. If you read on I allude to the fact that Lydiard’s boys would all do this, but personally, I didn’t as I ran my long runs just a bit too fast, often solo, necessitating an easier Monday to recover. But that was just me. This tendency to over-train cost me several possible New Zealand championships. I’d mistakenly try to “force” my aerobic fitness further, even though I was mentally very hard and had the proven ability to win. Lydiard’s personal squad got so well-conditioned with large volumes of easier aerobic running that they could bounce straight back from a long Sunday run and apparently do an “effort run” the next day, but you can be pretty sure that Sunday was a long “float” or that Tuesday would be an easy effort to absorb it all. Personally, I follow Arthur’s basic principles, but am always prepared to ‘fiddle’ with things to get an optimal result: for instance, I’d tend towards a weekly model that has built-in easier low-intensity ‘recovery runs’ of about 60 minutes Monday and Friday, a good fartlek with suitable w/up and cooldown Wednesday, and a sustained marathon-pace/3/4 effort run on Saturday.
So, Dominic, without wanting to confuse you, it’s like this: any rearrangement of these schedules will “work” so long as the general principles are followed. I used to find that a “3/4 effort” run on Saturdays suited me better, with weekday work in an excellent job another priority. So I’d have a big training block each weekend, with time for a good recovery meal and an afternoon nap each day to absorb the work. I couldn’t do this during the week, but I could easily pack in the steady “bread and butter” aerobic training.
Q3 (Base Training): In your post “how lydiard would approach marathon preparation” you give a sample week for marathon base training and state, that “to really get to your marathon potential the Lydiard way, you’d have at least 3 runs a week over 90 minutes, and vary your aerobic distances and intensities in the mix. One of these runs each week would need to be over 2 hrs 30 to make sure you glycogen deplete and use fatty acids.” Earlier in the same post you write “your current weekly schedule has two longer runs, and this is good, but you’ll need three in a Lydiard Preparation, usually with an easy hour jog on in-between days.” You then go on to give a sample week. This sample week however differs quite a bit from the one in the book (page 87). Furthermore, the intensities are described as Easy or Steady. What effort would steady be?
“Easy” would be virtually a (Karvonen) HR in the recovery zones (60-65% max HR), whereas “steady” would be with a HR more like 70-75% of MHR. (Page 54). We never had heart rate monitors when I was training in New Zealand on the Lydiard system, but we all knew what “steady” felt like. As an example, we all knew that if we could get our average aerobic pace in training on the roads comfortably down to 6 minutes /mile (3:43/km), including the long Sunday run, that meant we were aerobically strong enough to perform well at national level. Probably our heart rates were all hovering about 75% of our personal maximal heart rates. This pace was constant enough to put significant pressure on the capillary systems in the leg muscles and cardiac muscle.
The example on my web page is a specific re-arrangement of a training week for Dr Tingate, the sports medicine doctor who initiated the article. He gave me a sample week of what he was doing formerly, and I modified that to get the required work in for him, at the level of training that he’d already successfully reached.
Q4 (Strength Training): On page 176 you write “I found heavy lifting very good to do at night, after any hard running session was over and usually on the night before an easy recovery day. Now this question is somehow related to the ones concerning the basic weekly buildup structure: when, in the “optimal” basic training week would those sessions be done? According to the structure in the book, I assume it would be Mon/Wed/Fri (being either fartlek or 3/4 runs). Tue/Thu would, however, not be so relaxing days (90 mins. If one were to follow the structure outlined in the post I mentioned above, I figure it would be Tue/Thu/Sat for the strength training, with Wed/Fri being easy recovery days, yet Sunday being the long run.
In a base period, no particular running day should be overly tiring. We’re building, not dismantling. But in terms of “loading”, I’d be doing the weights on a Monday/ Wednesday/Friday basis, as these are the days before the longer easy runs that can be worked into steadily if there’s any residual muscle soreness or stiffness. The weekends can be rest/ super-compensation from the weights, while the higher aerobic and long aerobic training demands are met. 90 minute runs shouldn’t unduly tire a good athlete in base conditioning. If that’s the case, the athlete is running his mileage too fast for his level of development, or has other stresses going on that need to be addressed.
Try alternating the stress levels within the weight training sessions themselves, and try mixing them up a bit. You could include bounds, depth jumps, skipping, ‘speedball’ exercises, floor-ceiling punch-bag work.. Plyometrics, etc. I suggest something like
1.a “hard” Monday (3 main exercises: 3 sets of 5 reps >85% 1 RM deadlift,>5 minutes EASY active recovery (walking/stretching),
2.a ‘light maintenance’ Wednesday (1 set of same 4 exercises), and
3.another ‘hard’ Friday.
The warmups should be ‘dynamic’: ie: closely resembling the nature of the exercise to be performed. Things like 10x deep squats followed by vertical jumps, or ‘squat thrusts’, would prepare the body for the deadlift. Several slow chinups without a weight belt strapped on would warm up the specific muscles for the weight-belt chinups to follow. Regular ‘cruncher’ exercises could warm up the system for more intense core work later. You could alternate set 1 of deadlift (include active stretching recovery several minutes) with a superset of core exercise /weight-belt chinups, then follow set2 and set3 of deadlift with similar supersets.Finish off with some other drills as mentioned, and vary to suit your training tastes.
All of the above questions (1-4) concern the basic training structure one should aim for and when to do what for how long. It would be extremely helpful to me, If you could post a “optimal” weekly (time-based) structure including the strength trainings for basic (marathon) training.
OK : Here’s something that would work nicely for most people. Of course, this will be presented slightly differently to the book.
Mon: 40-60 minutes EASY RECOVERY RUNNING (60-65%) PM:’HARD’ strength session (3 sets x 5 )
Tue: 80 minutes STEADY AEROBIC RUNNING (hilly).(70-75%)
Wed: 60 minutes incl 40 minutes light fartlek: PM:’MAINTENANCE’ strength session (1 set each)
Thu: 100 minutes STEADY AEROBIC RUNNING (hilly).(70-75%)
Fri: 60 minutes EASY RECOVERY RUNNING (60-65%) PM:’HARD’ strength session (3 sets x 5 )
Sat: 80 minutes incl 40-60 mins SUB-THRESHOLD (75-80%)
Sun: 150 minutes STEADY AEROBIC
Q5 (Strength Training): This question isn’t about the weekly structure, but rather about the strength workout itself: how can one manage to do the entire strength training in just 30 minutes (as mentioned in the book)? Furthermore, would it do any harm to do the core exercises high-rep and thus going out of the alactic zone or is the acidosis only in the muscles involved in the exercise? Also, would doing supersets be a good way to shorten the length of a strength workout?
I’ve covered some of this above in reply to Q4.It’s very easy to do an effective strength training workout in well under 30 minutes. In fact, 20 minutes including 3 sets of of 3 or 4 basic exercises, including recovery times, is probably all you need. Try it! The idea that you have to train for a long time to get strong is erroneous in terms of the energy systems and muscle fibre types. To get strong, you have to lift HEAVY, in short alactic bursts, avoiding local muscle acidosis that leads to “neuromuscular breakdown”, and totally avoiding the TRAP of entering and staying in the lactate/glycolytic zone till acidosis stops the exercise.
There is ample evidence that lifting low-rep, heavy weights has a very beneficial effect on not only leg strength, but endurance performance, without necessarily increasing oxygen uptake or other parameters usually associated with increased endurance performance. I’ve quoted one such study performed with the type of training I recommend, at the end of Part 9 of the book (see reference for Paivalonen).
The super-fast, super-strong IIB fast twitch neuromuscular system we want to ‘hit’ in strength training consists of huge myelinated nerves innervating muscle cells packed densely with powerful contractile proteins and very little else. No mitochondria. No endoplasmic reticulum to speak of. No weighty, extensive volume of cytoplasmic fluid to dilute acidosis. Their best ‘operating base’ is within high-output bursts of less than 10 seconds, before the sluggish lactate system starts to kick in. These IIB fibres simply don’t need all the organelles that the IIA glycolytic or Type I slow-twitch fibres need, because they don’t need to metabolize fats or carbohydrates: their fuel is the self-regenerating creatine phosphate system, or “phosphate battery”, all well-described in the book. If we’re lifting in the ALACTIC energy system, with over 85% of 1 rep maximum, for several reps within the alactic time zone, then the total “load time” for one set is 10 seconds. This is probably enough time to lift maybe 5 repetitions with a decently heavy weight. Any more repetitions require a lighter weight, and a step down in neurological recruitment (size principle) to the next most powerful fibres, the IIA, and because you’ll be doing more reps, you’ll step over from the safe, non-acidic alactic anaerobic zone into the more dangerously acidic lactic/glycolytic zone.
When I was a gym instructor while working my way through university, I’d observe many people chatting idly between sets, and then going home satisfied that they’d done a “2-hour workout”. They’d do several sets of too many exercises with too little weight, repeated to local muscular exhaustion each time. The actual ‘load time’ total in their “glycolytic anaerobic” ‘strength’ workouts was usually well under 15 minutes, and the rest of the time was chatting and recovery. Most of their recovery time was totally needed because they’d be following the traditional “strength training” dogma of ‘pyramids’ of 12-10-8 repetitions (usually done to local muscle ‘failure’). Many personal trainers and instructors believe the dogma that ‘training to failure’ or ‘feeling the burn’ is somehow necessary to stimulate the desired strength response. What I am saying is that lifting more reps, with a weight well beneath the 85% max threshold for invoking the IIB fibres is a total waste of time. Training the IIA system, with moderate weights and more reps till acidosis stops the function at the neuromuscular junction achieves very little. By not lifting heavy in the first place, you have bypassed the very muscle fibres you’re trying to train, and by lifting to ‘failure’ you have gone into local acidosis which is harmful to the cell metabolism and structure. (All covered well elsewhere in the book!)
Not only have you failed to hit the threshold summation required to invoke the IIB, but you have TRAINED TO ACCEPT NEUROMUSCULAR FAILURE. You have trained your IIA muscle fibres predominantly, and these now have the unwanted payload of increased cytoplasmic volume to deal with and dilute the acid concentration in the cell. Because you have trained this system preferentially, and not lifted enough weight to recruit the desired IIB fibres, you’ll receive exactly what you’ve trained. The athlete will now have a lot of bruised, acidic, swollen IIA muscle fibres that need at least 48 hours to settle down and recover before they can rebuild themselves more strongly to cope. To cope, they need to have more organelles (extra weight!!), more fluid (weight!!), more recovery time required by far (!!) to repair the un-needed damage of acidosis.
By the way, if we cover these over-trained, swollen IIA muscle fibres with spray-tanned skin and a man-kini, they’ll look great on a body-builder, but in terms of strength, it’s “all show and no go”.
CORE: Why not do the basic movements slowly, but intensely, with a weight-plate or kettlebell for resistance, and see what that does for you? OR use thera-bands (variable resistance rubber tubes)to provide extra resistance against a stationary support, rather than doing high-rep work.
ACIDOSIS? Acidosis usually accrues firstly in the local muscle being exercised, unless the intensity is low enough to allow the circulatory system to flush the acidic metabolites from the local system into the general system. As work continues (usually at a lower intensity), it is possible to go from local acidosis into systemic acidosis, as the rate of clearance of metabolites is sufficient to allow that.
SUPERSETS: As the deadlift hits 95% of your musculature, it is highly recommended/preferred. But because so much muscle mass is involved, it probably needs the most recovery, as an exercise, to make sure the phosphate battery gets to near maximum again. (95% replenishment in 5 minutes is a commonly reported recovery figure). So I’d do that exercise in isolation, with up to 5 minutes of easy recovery after each set to allow the local phosphate “battery” to top up again. In the recovery break, one could hold static stretches of calf, hamstring , buttock, and lower-back muscles, before supersetting core and arm/chest work/ chinups.
Q6 (Ultramarathon Training): would the preparation for an Ultramarathon be any different than for a marathon? Would the long run be longer or the overall volume higher? Would more strength training be needed for courses like the UTMB (Ultra-Trail du Mont Blanc) or other very hilly courses?
I recently was in Flagstaff, Arizona, at the altitude training location for McMillan Elite Racing Team. One of the athletes I spoke to there, Ian Torrence, was a prolific ultra winner (49 victories in North American events, including Pikes Peak, etc). I asked him this very same question: my basic premise was that regular, solid marathoning conditioning along Lydiard lines would be enough for the ultra endurance athlete, as the ultra athlete has to maintain high energy reserves and immunity and can’t afford to deplete bodily reserves. I thought that a marathon-fit athlete who wanted to race at ultra distances would be conditioned well-enough for the much slower race paces required, but apparently I was near the mark, but not on it! Ian said that after several weeks of regular marathon conditioning, he would increase the duration of his long runs each weekend out to 5 hours or so, usually on trails. This would train the muscles and connective tissues to absorb the extra loading as much as anything. For him, any more than this duration was very boring, and didn’t seem to provide any extra physiological advantage. So I’d basically do the regular week, but get those long runs out to 5 hour trots on varied courses where you “smell the roses” at very low intensities.
Definitely, strength work would be paramount for an optimal result in ultra mountain racing. Whether this is done regularly by the top athletes is unknown to me, but I’d suggest it would be a good idea.
Q7 (Nutrition): You write (page 96) “fruits and vegetables provide plenty of needed carbohydrates, as do grain based foods, such as bread, pasta and rice.” Is this a general recommendation or would it be better to concentrate on carbohydrate simply for the pre- and post-workout meals and sticking to a “paleo-diet” for the rest of the day (as recommended in “The Paleo Diet for Athletes by Joe Friel and Lauren Cordain)? Furthermore, wouldn’t it be better to eat potatoes/sweet potatoes as high-carb sources, as they alkalise the bloodstream as opposed to all grain- and dairy-based foods (including rice)?
It’s a general recommendation. Whole grains are usually a rich source of B-complex and various trace elements. Potatoes have a high glycaemic index, useful for recovery post-training, especially, but potatoes also have wonderful nutritional benefits if the skin is eaten whole. You’re quite right about the alkalinity and the carbohydrate replacement value of potatoes/sweet potatoes. However: a comment on the Paleo Diet. I’m sure it has to be applied carefully for the endurance athlete. Lorraine Moller in Boulder, Colorado, is trying to coach a lady who has put herself on the “paleo diet”, and she feels that the woman is too tired all day to train effectively. Perhaps this woman has not been making the necessary sub-optimal “modifications” to her Paleo diet as recommended in the book? Our (European?) ancestors are very unlikely to have been flogging themselves for hours to build up their aerobic endurance: they relied on their innate daily life workload for fitness and were probably big protein and fat consumers.(I quote the following from the Paleo Diet website).
“For serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly after workouts we need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we’re placing demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Quick recovery is one of those demands. This requires some latitude to use non-optimal foods on a limited basis. The exceptions, as described in the book, are included in the athlete’s 5 stages of daily eating relative to exercise:
Stage I: Eating Before Exercise
Stage II: Eating During Exercise
Stage III: Eating Immediately After
Stage IV: Eating for Extended Recovery
Stage V: Eating for Long-Term Recovery
“Training for endurance sports such as running, cycling, triathlon, rowing, swimming, and cross-country skiing places great demands on the body, and the athlete is in some stage of recovery almost continuously during periods of heavy training. The keys to optimum recovery are sleep and diet. Even though we recommend that everyone eat a diet similar to what our Stone Age ancestors ate, we realize that nutritional concessions must be made for the athlete who is training at a high volume in the range of 10 to 35 or more hours per week of rigorous exercise. Rapid recovery is the biggest issue facing such an athlete. While it’s not impossible to recover from such training loads on a strict Paleo Diet, it is somewhat more difficult to recover quickly. By modifying the diet before, during, and immediately following challenging workouts, the Paleo Diet provides two benefits sought by all athletes: quick recovery for the next workout, and superior health for the rest of your life.”
I like the sound of the basic tenets proposed; in fact, I am doing very well on a similar approach that works for me, having “survived/thrived” through a nasty time with a supposedly “inoperable, incureable” brain tumour the last three years. I’m so well, that despite dire predictions, I was able to travel to the USA last month by myself, for 4 weeks, visiting coaches and friends. Most mornings I have a lightly seared Atlantic salmon steak and two poached free-range eggs to get my basic protein needs for the day dealt with. Later on I usually cycle for a solid hour over a rolling course through the local countryside. I also have 2000mg of fish oil 3xday; originally this was for brain function, but I found that this all took the chronic inflammation away that I was feeling in my right knee. So I’ve been able to run consistently again (a bit!) for the first time in several years after having torn the medial cartilage in both knees at different times; the (first injured) left knee was operated on, and the right knee wasn’t; but the fish oil (I believe) has helped the cartilage heal itself. I have raw unpasteurized cow’s milk each day, as this is full of good enzymes, and I have a lot of yoghurt. Gut health IS immune health, IS neurological health. 70% of the nervous system is associated with the gut.
- Category: General
Welcome
to Healthy Intelligent Training
HI!
Middle Distance Training can be described best as an Art, Philosophy and Science.
It involves training THREE differing energy systems and muscle fibre types, hopefully
to a point where each system is fully trained, and fully rested, “ready
to go” at the most important time of the season. This book is based on the
work of the legendary New Zealand middle distance coach, Arthur Lydiard, and explores
the basic physiology of what his simple system did to produce multiple Olympic
gold medals and world records. 